#1979e6
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 17:10:32 GMT
(The Guardian) This is a really tricky one. Players are well paid, but players are still workers, who have a right to go about their professional business. On the other hand, though we’re all obliged as human beings to do the right thing and we’re at a juncture in history where that is now extremely important. The point here isn’t that owners care about players not playing international football per se, it’s that banning players from international football might mean players refuse to play in the ESL, and that might be enough to stop it.
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#1979e6
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 17:27:42 GMT
(The Guardian) “A thought on players being banned from international appearances if their club plays in the ESL,” says Phil Gibson. “If a club decides to leave the Premier League and stop being FA-affiliated (or gets chucked out) then those players can’t be considered to be playing Association Football, since that falls solely in the remit of FIFA and its own affiliates. It’s why Rugby Union players don’t get picked for Rugby League international matches, it’s a different sport! How about the ESL decides, once it controls its own game, that goals scored from a certain distance from the goalline count extra? Or making their own changes to the offside law?” This is an interesting point, and relates to one we discussed earlier this morning: what if changes are made to the format of the game? If the ESL control the ESL, then they can do whatever they like. And will they have a compliance unit? What if particular results suit the financial imperatives of the cartel?
“Not sure I agree with Shearer et al saying this has nothing to do with the players,” writes Alex Ecob. “Football is the players. They are in a hugely influential position to take a stand against this, and vote with their feet about which teams to represent. The possibility of an international ban coming into force may seem to be punishing the wrong people, but a concerted refusal from the players would throw any plans into absolute chaos.” As per the below, I feel for the players but we are where we are. I also wonder if the ESL clubs are breaching the terms of their contracts with the players, assuming that this can be settled with an uplift in salary. If that’s so – and it’s big if, but not an unlikely one – then if they decide they’re doing well enough already, the clubs have a potentially insurmountable problem.
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#1979e6
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 17:35:55 GMT
(The Guardian) Gianni Infantino, the president of Fifa, speaks – strongly“At FIFA, we can only and strongly disapprove the creation of the super league, of a super league which is a closed shop, which is a breakaway from the current institutions. No doubt whatsoever of Fifa’s disapproval. Full support to Uefa.” “It is my task and our task to protect the European sports model, club competitions, national teams. If they choose to go their own way, they must live with their choice. They are either in or out. They cannot be half-in and half-out.” “My task, our task, is to save club football, international football.”
That’s much stronger than anything Infantino has said previously. He didn’t say anything about banning ESL players from international competition, though it can, at a push, be read into his half-in, half-out point. Either way, he understands the gravity of the situation, which makes you think that he’ll use all power and sanction available to him to make sure he wins. Whether or not that’s enough, who knows.
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#1979e6
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 17:37:23 GMT
(The Guardian) The president of the IOC Thomas Bach has also come out against the European Super League this morning, warning that: “In this polarising environment, narrow self-interest and egotism are gaining ground over solidarity, shared values and common rules.” Bach stressed that he supported European Sports Model, where money went to the grassroots and success was based on merit. But speaking at the Uefa congress, Bach warned that such a model was under threat from the “purely profit-driven approach that ignores the intrinsic values and social mission of sport.” “It is under threat because the social mission of sport organisations is losing ground to the purely profit-oriented goals of commercial sport providers and investors,” he added. “If everything is only looked at from a business perspective, if only the economic rules are applied to measure the impact of sport on society, then the social mission of sport is lost.”
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#1979e6
MatchDay Commentator
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May 20, 2018 17:24:36 GMT
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 17:38:29 GMT
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#1979e6
MatchDay Commentator
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 17:39:16 GMT
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#1979e6
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 17:40:33 GMT
(The Guardian) “What has it come to when we’re looking to Fifa and Gianni Infantino to protect the moral and economic values of the sport?” wonders Keith Hennigan. “Also, while I think the statement from Everton’s Directors is laudable, I can’t read it without that niggling thought that if they, rather than say Spurs, has been considered ‘Big Six,’ they’d be doing exactly the same ... apologies to Everton fans and Directors for my cynicism!” I don’t think we can convict Everton for something they’ve not done, but I understand the sentiment so I think it’s worth restating what is, in mine, the key point: no one here is pure, but some people are on one side and others are on another. Those who want to stop the ESL need to support those who want to do likewise, not pick at their previous misdeeds, because that’s the only way this might work.
“Just a thought,” says Colin Brookman, “but where does the ESL expect to get its referees from if it cuts ties with Uefa?” I don’t know, but if they’re nothing to do with any authority other than themselves, they can do what they want. Ultimately, though, these kind of difficulties are ones the ESL clubs will be delighted to have because it means they’re away.
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#1979e6
MatchDay Commentator
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 17:41:23 GMT
(The Guardian) “On the topic of players participating in the ESL not playing international football,” emails Mike Rolfe, “there are numerous precedents from other sports to follow. National rugby union boards (e.g. Wales) maintain selection policies that prevent players playing abroad being selected for their national sides presumably to maintain the quality and integrity of their national club competitions. Similarly, the ICC initially banned players who took part in World Series Cricket from participating in international Tests and ODIs. The biggest difference here is in those situations players we’e presented a choice beforehand and a lot of this will come down to the terms (and likely individual clauses and choice of words) in their contracts. In the event of a ban there would be some sympathy with the players but they are phenomenally well paid for what they do. The choice for them to earn in some cases 250k per week for an ESL club vs representing their country in an elite sport (whilst likely still earning 100k plus per week) is still a choice between two incredible opportunities. This is very different to the sort of sacrifices that exist in the amateur vs. professional splits in some sports or the relatively life changing sums of money Kerry Packer put on the table for cricketers who enjoyed international careers but meagre financial benefits.” Yup. I don’t think World Series Cricket quite works as a comparator because employment law has changed so much since then, but the Wales situation is significant because it tells us that contemporary employment law, both in the UK and the EU, allows it.
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#1979e6
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 17:42:14 GMT
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#1979e6
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 17:49:52 GMT
(The Guardian) “There’s a lot of talk about government intervention and implementing a 50+1 rule in England to curtail the ‘big 6’ clubs,’ says Tom Leonard. “While I’d be all for that as a fan of one of those clubs I think the real stumbling block would be the other 14 clubs. Why would the millionaires and billionaires who own Wolves or Leicester or Leeds or Newcastle readily accept a model that would see their ownership reduced? These people are rightly up in arms about the super league and being left behind, but they are also ruthless businessmen with ruthless business interests and they’re not going to want to share these clubs any more than the Glazers or FSG. I’m a Manchester United fan who hasn’t been to a game since 2005, hasn’t bought any merchandise since 2005 and has been opposed to the Glazers since that time. If I look at things in the most positive light I can see government intervention as potentially a good thing. This super league has been the Glazers’ endgame since they took over. If their plans are stopped at a parliamentary level then hopefully they finally decide to sell up and move on, or are forced to. It’s a very faint hope that I doubt will happen but last week there was a zero percent chance the Glazers leave United, and now at least there’s some chance however small. I just can’t see the fan ownership model as viable. Hope to be proved wrong, on that account at least.” I guess that if a 50+1 rule was implemented by government, then owners of the clubs you mention might just have to accept it. They might also accept it because ultimately, if it keeps the league intact, that serves their bottom line. I always thought the Glazers expected to break the collective TV deal, and think this is happening because that didn’t, but ultimately I’m sure we’re in agreement that they’ll do whatever makes them most money without the slightest compunction.
“The talents concentrated in the elite clubs are the results of all the work done in the lower ends of the pyramid,” says Daniel Persson. “It is work that often is voluntary or underpaid, in kids and junior teams, in the lower ranks of the different series systems across Europe. The super league clubs should be cut off from that pool of talent, and have to develop their own players from scratch. Legislation and strong contracts between the remaining clubs could make that possible, i.e. it should only be possible to sell a player to another club still in the system, and there should be mandatory non-compete clauses that would force an hiatus on a player to join a super league club after their contract lapses. All the work being done to develop talent at the lower ends of the pyramid is the value that is turned into profit and exciting content under the super league club brands. Cut that off, and their profit model will sink.” Yes, this would be a good sanction – but, I fear, one that would only have an impact once the ESL is up and away, at which point it’s done.
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#1979e6
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 17:51:52 GMT
(The Guardian) “In 1986 Middlesbrough FC were in the old third division and 10 minutes from liquidation, the end of a club that was formed in 1876,” recalls Richard Horrocks. “Just under 10 years later we signed a certain Juninho, then the fifth-best player in the world, with recent Champions League winner Ravanelli following shortly afterwards. In just under another 10 years we were in the Uefa cup final against Sevilla. Had we won that game then we would have played Barcelona in the European Super Cup. That’s Middlesbrough FC versus Barcelona FC in a legitimate competitive game of football. THAT is the dream. That game was so close to a reality for no other reason than merit ... we earned that position, and without a doubt, if that dream is possible for a club like Middlesbrough, who only twenty years previously were 10 minutes from non-existence, then it is a dream that is possible for anyone. I think it was a couple of years later that Middlesbrough was voted the worst place to live in the UK on a live countdown television show. And that is the context in which these dreams take place ... the mundane, painful, exhausting slog of daily life interrupted ever so briefly by the magic of a dream. This battle is so much more than a game. We all know that. They don’t. Let’s make sure that this is one battle we win.” Yes, quite. I guess people might argue that Boro got to where they were because of Steve Gibson’s money, but ultimately it was spent well – on the pitch, I’m absolutely not having that ground – and anyway, for better or for worse, that’s football. I’d be in favour of spending caps and other related rules to make things fairer, but even the contribution of Gibson was earned because he fell in love with his hometown club on its unique merits.
Ruben den Broeder emails in to suggest what football can learn from F1: “In Formula 1, concerns emerged over both the hegemony of Mercedes for seven straight years and the huge amounts of money spent by the big teams. Instead of the big teams crying for ever more money to continue the hegemony, they illustrated they actually cared about the sport itself and about the smaller teams: a budget cap will be imposed starting next season. This will level the playing field and prevent major financial difficulties down the road for the teams. This is the road that should have been taken years ago in soccer by imposing caps on transfer sums, player salaries, and agent fees. Instead, Fifa and Uefa have steered the sport to this point by not imposing these regulations and ensuring the big teams got ever bigger (by guaranteeing their nearly untouchable coefficient ranking and thus guaranteed CL tickets and money). Where did this money go? Of course it went to ever larger transfer sums and player salaries, until clubs got to this desperate point by their own overspending. Therefore, this situation to me not only illustrates the greed of the Super League teams, but also how the Fifa and Uefa are actually at the core of the issue. This is a problem of their own making which we should make them know and we should demand the previously mentioned reforms.” Yes, I think if Fifa, Uefa and everyone else stop this we’ll see some kind of more general reform, and I agree they’re partially to blame for all this – though for now, it doesn’t matter because they’re on the side of right. The difference with F1, though – I think – is that F1 is a minority sport that costs dizzying sums of money to maintain, so the co-dependence is more obvious. The richest football clubs, on the other hand, think that the money they’re earning is less than the money they deserve and, more importantly, less than the money they can get.
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#1979e6
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 17:58:32 GMT
(The Guardian) More from Aleksander Ceferin, the president of Uefa“Gentlemen, you have made a huge mistake. English fans deserve to have you correct your mistake. They deserve respect. Correct your mistake, turn back, come to your senses”. “Uefa competitions needs Atalanta, Celtic, Rangers, Dinamo Zagreb and Galatasaray. People to know everyone has a chance. We need to keep the dream alive. Big clubs now were not necessarily big clubs in past and no guarantee there will be big in future.” “To the English clubs, come to your senses. Not out of love for football, I don’t imagine you have much of that, but out of respect for the people who bleed for the team, out of respect for the home of football.” That’s a more conciliatory tone than yesterday, but the essential points remain.
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#1979e6
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 17:59:25 GMT
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#1979e6
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 18:01:03 GMT
(The Guardian) “I’m a longtime Liverpool fan and a fan of sports in general,” says Luke Jones. “I don’t understand most of the outrage about the ESL. I think a lot of it is rooted in an English presumptuousness that they are somehow entitled to have the biggest players in the world - and their country - playing in their local team but they don’t have to adapt at all to anything modern in return. I bet the reaction would be a lot different if people expected that the alternative to this is that in 10 years the next Harry Kane would be playing in Los Angeles and you never got to watch anyone good in person (unless you paid huge amounts to watch pre-season friendlies with development squads). In fact, as a fan based in America, if you want to kick all of these owners and their money out of the Premier League, and all of the star players they pay for, and make them all come here and set up a closed league of the best teams in the world playing with international superstars, that would be great!” It’s not about the best players at all - Manchester United had the highest attendances in the country when they were in Division Two, every weekend hundreds of thousands of people watch teams not competing for trophies in person – it’s about the clubs that were built by us and supported by us playing in our league. Football is about identity and heritage, not about being the best and watching the best.
“Saw the comment by Luke Jones,” says Kevin Waskells. “I also support Liverpool and live in America. If the Super League does go through then I will stop supporting Liverpool. The history, the connection to the local communities, rivalries, promotion and relegation are things that make football so fascinating imho to many Americans. Fortunately, I live in Detroit where we have Detroit City Football Club, which is an amazing story of a club built from the ground up and still grounded with the supporters and local community. I’ll also be looking for a new English club to support as well!”
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#1979e6
MatchDay Commentator
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Post by Webster on Apr 20, 2021 18:11:27 GMT
(The Guardian) Paris Saint-Germain chief executive Nasser Al-Khelaïfi has emphatically ruled out joining the Super League and committed the club to working with Uefa instead, Paris Saint-Germain holds the firm belief that football is a game for everyone. I have been consistent on this since the very beginning. As a football club, we are a family and a community; whose fabric is our fans - I believe we shouldn’t forget this. There is a clear need to advance the existing Uefa competition model, presented by Uefa yesterday and concluding 24 months’ of extensive and collaborative consultation across the whole European football landscape. We believe that any proposal without the support of Uefa – an organisation that has been working to progress the interests of European football for nearly 70 years – does not resolve the issues currently facing the football community, but is instead driven by self-interest.
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